EP #419: Getting Your Story Out to the Universe — With Anthony Pacheco

David Saltzman: 0:00

Once you have your story and you hone your message. How do you get it out to the universe? We'll find out, uh, in this episode of shift, shapers

Announcer: 0:10

Change, either paralyzes or energizes, the choice is yours. You are listening to the shift shapers podcast. You are about to learn firsthand from businesses and entrepreneurs who have successfully shaped the shifts in their industries. Get ready to become the change you want to see. This episode is brought to you by shift shaper strategies in sales. If you confuse you lose, clarify your message. So you win more clients, crush your sales goals and build your practice. Learn more@shifterstrategies.com. And now here's your host. StoryBrand certified guide and chief transformation strategist at shifter strategies, David Saltzman men.

David Saltzman: 1:03

And we're pleased to introduce our guest. Who's gonna help us answer that question. And probably some others that I haven't thought of yet. Anthony Pacheco, who is the president at P 1311, Anthony. Welcome to the podcast.

Anthony Pacheco: 1:14

Hey, thanks Dave, for having me on, I really appreciate it.

David Saltzman: 1:16

Now I know that you weren't born with a story, but you're entry into this part of the market came from a personal experience. Would you give us a little bit about your background and share some of that, please?

Anthony Pacheco: 1:27

Sure. So to understand really my story of healthcare, I was consulting in the restaurant industry and my wife stabbed herself in the arm with an Exacto knife, making Halloween costumes and a little one in half inch incision on our forearm, ended up with a$2,200 bill. And when they handed it to me, there was no itemization on it. And so I said, I don't know who you think I am, but I don't just pay$2,200 without knowing what I'm paying for. And the lady looked at me and said, I'll give you half off right now if you pay. And I said, well, if you're behind the counter, what happens when I talk to your boss and your boss's boss? So I worked my way up to the director of finance at that, uh, hospital and ended up paying 10% as I walked out with my wife and we went home, I looked around the emergency room and I thought, how many people are about to pay a thousand percent higher bill than they maybe should have? And that's kind of what got me started into healthcare and just understanding that healthcare is very negotiable. And a lot of times what we don't realize is that you can get a better quality of care for a lower cost. And so that's kind of what brought me into

David Saltzman: 2:34

This industry. Yeah, there are a couple of interesting misaligned incentives if you will, in, in the industry. And the first is that most people think, you know, and the rest of our lives, if you pay more money for something, you kind of have this reasonable expectation that it's better quality, and that's not the case in medicine. And it's also about the only thing left on the universe that I can think of that you buy without knowing the cost upfront and people are actually offended if you ask them about the cost upfront. So how did that turn out to be? How did that end up being a business?

Anthony Pacheco: 3:04

Well, it's interesting. I walked out and thought I can go negotiate people's hospital bills and emergency room bills for them. And what I realized is that it was very convoluted industry and I had no idea really what I was doing. And so as I was kind of just stumbling my way through, I realized that I needed to go after a commercial market because they would have a group of employees going together. And that's kind of what took me down my path into the voluntary space, through Aflac, working with them for a little while. They were the largest commercial distributors of insurance, as far as the number of clients that they worked with and then a very unique strategy, but that's kind of what got me into the field. And then I accidentally built my first health plan by working with that same hospital and then going and, uh, aggregating that back for the employee errors in that community. And so that's kind of how I stumbled into that side of the business,

David Saltzman: 4:03

But you've made kind of a, a leap cuz you're, you're doing, you're doing a whole not different thing, but very relatable thing. Tell us about that.

Anthony Pacheco: 4:10

Yeah. So, you know, one of the biggest things that I found, especially in that world was everybody sounded the same. And the only way to differentiate yourself was to have what is referred to now as a personal brand. And so people would differentiate their self with personal brand, but that still wouldn't resonate because everybody would say the same message. We can help save you money. We can give you better benefits and features. And so it becomes white noise to our audience and our prospects. And so it started me down the path of marketing. I've always been very fascinated with marketing and I marketed on the hospitality side. And so coming into this industry, I really did not understand how different that B2B world really was, especially in the employee benefit sector because in the employee benefit sector, there's a lot of relationships that have been built for a lot of years. And so a lot of the employee benefit brokers will rely on their past accomplishments of maybe their parents or people that they've bought their agencies from in order to continue to maintain. And we're not even talking about the big box brokers that are not only just a huge name in the industry, but they're publicly traded on top of that. And so there's a huge, huge difference between a regional house and an independent. But if you go from big box to independent it's night and day, they don't even appear the same way to the client. And so that's what really got me interested in it. And so when I started down the path of figuring out how do I make it very unique? We started with LinkedIn and really pushing towards how do we know, who knows which people and on LinkedIn back in 2010, if you were LinkedIn with somebody and connected with somebody, you actually knew them. It's not like today where you've got 20,000 connections just because you'll connect with anybody. So we actually started building strategies then. And so all of the marketing that I started doing for myself, I ended up showing to other agents to help them grow their agencies. And so I say now basically since 2009, I've been showing unique strategies and I've helped about a thousand insurance brokers to become uniquely qualified in the marketplace.

David Saltzman: 6:31

That's fascinating. And you know, I I've seen some of the same thing as we talked about offline, I'm a, a certified story brand guidance. So the part of the work that I like doing is not the piece that you do, but it's the piece that maybe comes up front and I'm sure you do some of this too. You pretty much have to with clients, but helping people understand what their client journey is and how to tell that story in a way that resonates with the client. Because what we find is so many agents, especially it's true in, in the large box agencies as well, but, but especially in the small solo printers or small practices, they bomb into a client's office. And I get the same story, you know, while I was talking to the CFO and I had his attention for about five minutes and he was nice and let me finish my presentation. But after five minutes, I knew he wasn't connecting with me. I don't know what went wrong. And the answer is, you're telling your story. You're not telling their story. And you know, so I do that part of the work. And then the question I get from clients is how do I get that out there and differentiate myself the thing you're talking about? How do I take now that I've got my message and I understand how to tell it, how do I make it a brand? So how do you do that? Or, and also how shouldn't you do it?

Anthony Pacheco: 7:39

Oh, absolutely. It'll be a lot easier to, to hit on how not to do it because there's a lot of don'ts in the industry, you know, telling your story has to resonate with the person that's purchasing and it has to tie back into their problem because at the end of the day, they are the hero. And a lot of times we make ourselves the hero by saying, I've helped you save this much money. I've done this, I've done that. We built this. And that's the typically the wrong message because self-promotion never works. And so if you, like you said, in the story brand can make them the hero and you're guiding'em along the way. You have a much better story to tell by telling, taking your piece of your story and conjoining the two, what I do, isn't that unique when it comes to building that brand for other people, my unique play comes in, how do I get people engaged? And that is the unique strategy that I've developed since 2010, as some of the interesting pieces of the internet and advertisements started coming out. And so this is the part that probably makes the most sense for me. If I could tell you who in your area had their hand up and was looking at how to change benefit broker or healthcare cost, would that get your attention? And the answer for all brokers is yes, because only 3% of the market at any given time is ready to make a change. And we're talking health insurance here. So it better be pretty darn good to change. So if we know who's looking, that means that they're dissatisfied with what they currently have. And so that's called what we get is third party data. We're getting information from companies that are telling us who has their hand up. Who's doing research, who's looking in the backdrop after you get that third party data. It doesn't just stop there because if you just reach out to those people, they don't have a clue who you are. You still don't exist to them. Ask brokers all the time. Can you name the top 10 companies on the S and D 500? No you can't. And I promise you, you can't name the CEOs after that. It's because we don't really pay attention to those things. Our brains aren't wired that way. It's not our everyday life. And so what we have to do is now make you extremely relevant. So we've got these groups, they're interested in the products and solutions that we have. Now we have to get their attention. And this is where you'll use neural linguistic processing and pattern interrupt in order to interrupt that decision maker during the middle of their day. And this is what most people call a phone call or an email, but the way we do it is a little bit different. We want to tap into the subconscious of that decision maker's mind. And so we'll build static ads, we'll geo fence, their location, and then we will drop those ads to their devices and their devices only based on the data that we're gathering on that third party. So now we've got a very sniper rifle approach to target those C-suite executives with the right message that they need to hear based on what they're already researching in their company. And we know what their pain point is, and that creates what's called first party data. Now, as people start to engage with our first party data, there are eBooks infographics, testimonials, videos, everything on the back end that they're starting to engage with along the way. And that's where we really get to start to make some headway. As somebody downloads a free ebook or watches a video and opens an email, that's gonna trigger. What's called a nurture event where we're gonna make a phone call, follow up to that prospect in a time where they're looking at what you have to say. They have the intent, they have their hand up and they've seen you everywhere. So when you call they, for some reason, know that you exist because for the past five to 10 days, all they've seen is your ads everywhere. They go on the internet. So it doesn't matter if they're going to a news media, a sporting media, or doing research on how to make oatmeal. They're seeing your branding, your name over and over and over again. And eventually they'll stop paying attention to it, but subconsciously their brain will still see it. So now when we make that phone call, we come through, we say the brand name and automatically, they don't understand why they know that you exist, but you actually exist to them.

Announcer: 12:09

And now a word from our sponsor. It's a fact sales people and organizations lose opportunities because they don't clearly communicate their value in today's market. Your story is your message. It should be crystal clear, perfectly arranged, and precisely targeted to attract the clients you want. As a certified story brand guide, we use the exclusive SB seven process to create that story and the websites and collateral that deliver it. If your message isn't cutting through the noise, we can help visit us@shiftshaperstrategies.com to learn how we can help you find, clarify, and deliver a message that wins clients, crushes sales goals, and builds your practice in sales. If you confus, you lose. So learn more and schedule that call today@shifterstrategies.com that's shift shaper strategies.com. And now back to our discussion,

David Saltzman: 13:09

That's fascinating. Are there certain markets or sizes of groups where this works better than others? Is it a small group play or a large group play where you've got a big C-suite where's the sweet spot for this?

Anthony Pacheco: 13:20

Yeah, the best that we've seen is typically for the under 5,001. Once we get over 5,000 employees, the dynamics change quite a bit and it makes it a little bit harder to target the C-suites and decision makers inside of those organizations. So if we go from about 5,000 down to about 50 employees, that's kind of the

David Saltzman: 13:41

Sweet spot. That's the heck of a range, because when you're in the 50, you don't have as a broker, you don't have an awful lot of latitude as to what you can do for a particular client, but you get into the two or three hundreds or four hundreds, and then you've got fully, if you've got data and you've got fully credible clients or prospects, and, and you can start talking to them about partially self-funded plans or other mechanisms or whatever. So it's, it's interesting that it works in the small group arena as well. Can you gimme kind of an example of how that's worked with a client?

Anthony Pacheco: 14:08

Absolutely. So we've had a couple of brokers pick up multiple clients under a hundred, and typically the strategy play is that they'll come in and because they are able to show a five year projection versus, Hey, I can come in and help you here. Let's show some, some information to say over the next five years, here's what you've paid. Here's where we could get you. If we, where to just tweak this one little piece here or there again, every client is different, but if you show a strategy of five year projections versus what can I do for you today, you have a better chance of winning that broker of record, right on the spot and developing with that client, understanding their culture. We want to, to give you something very plain vanilla, let's keep your carrier in place. Let's put this one little tweak onto your health plan that will allow you to, you know, put an HRA on there, whatever that first little mini step is that crawl phase in order to get them going down the path with you, where they can see a futuristic outcome, not just what have you done for me today.

David Saltzman: 15:14

And that's also in and of itself a huge pattern interrupt. Isn't it? Because especially in that size of the market, people are used to going 11 months taking the least worst renewal, maybe switching carriers every year. They don't look at it as a long term strategy. And I think, you know, that that definitely something that I'll bet resonates with them, but it's another part of the psychology of that sale. Isn't it?

Anthony Pacheco: 15:35

Absolutely.

David Saltzman: 15:36

So

Anthony Pacheco: 15:36

Absolutely.

David Saltzman: 15:37

Let's move upmarket a little bit and let's talk about it. Is there any difference between what you try to do with the, the smaller group broker, the under one hundreds and when you start getting into the hundred plus markets?

Anthony Pacheco: 15:49

Yeah. So we call the smaller group ma market, our rabbits, you know, we're typically going in hot and heavy in the beginning. We're just trying to pick up BORs to get clients and, and drive revenue that way we can use that money to invest into growing into those bigger markets. And so it's been a strategy that we've kind of used with our brokers as we get into those larger markets, the NLP and the, those neurolinguistic processing, how interrupts are gonna change a little bit. The C-suite of a 50 life company is typically a little bit different than the C-suite at a 500 life company. There's more middle management taking on those roles. And so you can really target those individual prospects out in a way that you can get their attention in a, and without worrying about them having to go put out fires in their company, because they have managers that are doing that for them. So it is a little bit easier to market to that group. The difference is, is that in those larger cases, a lot of times that HR director or total rewards director will end up being the person that makes the final decision. And so you have to make a different message for the total rewards versus a CFO. And so each one of'em would be receiving different ad messages and understandings of that nurture campaign in order to get their attention. So once we get the CFO engaged, and we're also engaging that, uh, HR total rewards on the back end, both of them are hearing different messages from the same brand. And so when they do have a conversation about it, at some point, it will be, Hey, yes, I've actually heard of this company. They're doing some beauty things. Oh, HR is like, actually what they're doing is amazing. They're helping employees get$0 deductibles and no copays for their prescriptions. It's gonna help us on our recruiting angle. I mean, all of those different sectors are kind of how you're going to change the pattern interrupt.

David Saltzman: 17:42

Have you found that COVID and the quarantine and the hybrid workplace has changed any of these kinds of approaches?

Anthony Pacheco: 17:51

Absolutely. So one of the biggest hurdles that we ran across during COVID was the fact that they weren't going to the office anymore. And so our program that we use can look back up to six months. And so we can actually put a geo fence around that location, go back in time, six months and look to see who's been there for those six month days. So if they came to the office during that time, we can actually see who those people are, but that's been the biggest hindrance is people working from home on these type of programs. Now, as people came back to the office, it changed a lot. And most of our brokers that we're working with right now are typically manufacturing or blue collared focused. And so not so much on the large corporations. And so a lot of those employees are already at work and so are their, their C-suites. So they're pretty much in the office.

David Saltzman: 18:46

It's fascinating that, you know, COVID has changed everything for everybody. And, you know, I wonder if, was it Gandhi? Who said you can't step in the same river twice? I, I, you know, I, I wonder what the, it, it's fascinating to watch what the changes have been. This whole hybrid workplace thing barely existed and it was there, but it was in the shadows. It was Demi. And now all of a sudden it's the thing. And people are having to learn how to message differently. They're learning to lead differently. If they're inside organizations, that whole pattern has changed. And the whole way that you go about attracting and retaining employees has, has changed.

Anthony Pacheco: 19:19

Absolutely. And that is one of the biggest strategies we've seen as well. Is that using that pattern interrupt about recruiting and retainment, it's always been, uh, retention. It's always been on the forefront of everybody's mind and the benefit sector and not selling the benefit as a way to recruit and retain is the biggest aha. Because you can actually sell retention of your key employees without saying it's because of my benefits plan. And so that is the unique piece that you can add that will help differentiate you from everybody

David Saltzman: 19:52

Else. Well, and it's also made their populations far flu you're you're hiring radius is no longer driving distance to your brick and mortar office. You can hire people overseas, you can hire people, any place that they've got an internet connection. We've got a couple of minutes left I'm I'm in, interested in where you see this going in the future, what kind of adaptations and changes and, and new wrinkles you're seeing.

Anthony Pacheco: 20:15

Yeah. So I think the biggest wrinkle kind of what we talked about are, are the people that are working all over the oh all over the world. The great thing is, is that we're not focused on targeting the employees. And so we're targeting the C-suite and they're typically going to some sort of office setting. The great pieces is that as data has become more open to us, the more we can actually target people in C-suites that are at their own locations at their home. And we try not to do that as much as possible. We feel like it's a little over the top, but it is a strategy depending if the broker wants to get super aggressive on it, to start marketing towards people's homes and not to market towards people's devices that are under the age of 18, that's another big piece. But as this industry evolves, you're going to see a lot more of the geofence technology start to emerge, especially in our space, because if we're really honest about ourself, the marketing for employee benefit brokers is subpar. We're so far behind. It's just like the rest of our industry, the way that we negotiate prices and the way that we're building our health plans. They're so archaic. They're, they're 30, 40 years old that shouldn't be done that way anymore. And so as we start to evolve and we start to see the status quo, disruptors, start to hit the forefront. The more you're going to see these personal brands become actual marketable and advertised brands across the platform.

David Saltzman: 21:48

And that's a great place to end our conversation for today. Anthony Pacheco, president of P 1311,

Announcer: 21:54

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