Why Some Agents Truly Thrive

David 0:00

In a Medicare marketplace filled with complex rules, constant regulatory changes, and millions of confused beneficiaries, what separates the agents who merely survive from those who build a thriving, trusted Medicare practice? We'll find out on this episode of Shift Shapers.

Announcer 0:20

Change either energizes or paralyzes. The choice is yours. This is the Shift Shapers Podcast, bringing the employee benefits industry interviews with individuals and companies who are shaping the industry's shifts. And now, here's your host, David Saltzman.

David 0:40

And to help us answer that question, we've invited Paige Phillips to join us today. Paige is founder of the Page Phillips Insurance Agency, a longtime Medicare specialist who's helped thousands of beneficiaries navigate all those complexities we talked about in Medicare coverage. She's also the author of a brand new book, Medicare Playbook for Agents, which distills decades of her real-world experience into practical strategies for agents who want to build and keep a successful Medicare book of business. Welcome, Paige.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Why Paige Wrote The Playbook

David 1:14

Thanks for being here and taking some time. So I let's let's start with the origin of the book. You, as I mentioned, you spent decades doing Medicare, and your new Medicare book reads like a field guide for building a successful practice. What inspired you to sit down and write the book?

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Well, I do have some downline agents that I do mentor, and I was mentoring them and helping them answer questions. And they were just always calling me and how how do you do this and how do you do that? And and what CRM system? And so I've always wanted to write a book. And I thought, well, what better do to write one about something I know about? And so I thought, well, this would help agents with my systems in place. And I wrote it not like saying this is the way you need to do things, but these are ways that I've done things that have really helped my transition into Medicare and build my business. So I've really enjoyed helping agents and hoping that it will help them build a better Medicare business and some things that they don't know about and procedures that are in place and some things I've learned and tips and how to get referrals and things. So that's kind of how it came about was to help help agents build their Medicare business.

David 2:35

So I know what kind of training you guys go through, you know, the exams every year and all that stuff. Where did you start seeing gaps, like in what areas? And we'll discuss some of them as we go along, but where where where did you see that there was stuff missing despite all of that training?

SPEAKER_02 2:50

There's a lot of things that you learn on the job. I'll never forget the first time I went out to a Medicare when, and I had no up, well, I had up line, but I had nobody to do ride-alongs with me or or tell me what to take on an appointment. And I didn't even know what Irma was. And I was with an actual physician, and she goes, Well, I'm gonna have Irma. Well, I didn't act like I didn't know what it was. And I was like, Okay, well, let me check on that and see what's your part B premium. So there's a lot of things that you learn on the job. You learn by mistakes, and so I put a lot of that in the book to say there's a lot of gaps that you don't just learn on the Medicare certification. Anybody can take the test and learn the questions and learn the answers, but you really learn because everybody is different. Your Medicare's different, there's different situations, um, different income levels. And so I tried to focus in a lot of that on the book on um here's just some things that I've learned. And there's a whole chapter on things that they don't tell you, things that you don't learn from the actual certification test.

David 4:00

In the book, you make it clear that Medicare is kind of a different animal. It's different from other lines of insurance. What makes the Medicare market its own kind of unique ecosystem?

SPEAKER_02 4:11

A lot of it is relationship building. And I spend a lot of time talking about that in the book. When I did employee benefits before I did Medicare for almost 30 years. And so I built the trust with the employees where I would sell them one thing one year, and then I would go back in the next year and upsell them and sell them something in addition to what they had. So Medicare is the same way. It's building a trust factor. So nowadays, you pick up the phone, you don't know who's on the other end. You and I both know when we grow up, you you trusted everybody on the phone. You ran to go answer the phone and you couldn't wait to talk to them and see who it was. But that's not the way it is now. And so seniors are very scared to talk to anybody. They need a trusted advisor to to steer them in the right, right way. And and and really, these are financial decisions that they're going to make regarding their health and their finances, and they need somebody that'll give them the right decision and not just sell them a policy. And that's that was my whole concept, and what I'm hoping agents will do as well to do the right thing.

David 5:20

What surprises a lot of agents when they first start working with Medicare clients?

SPEAKER_02 5:25

It surprises them, I think, that they their clients don't know anything. Um they all they've had is group insurance their whole life. They've been taken care of their whole life. Um, all their doctors are usually covered. And I think the thing that surprises them is the amount of education that we have to do to our clients to make sure that they're making the right decisions. Um I consider myself an educator that just happens to have an insurance license. They really need to buy it themselves. You just explain what their options are and let them make the decision, and then they feel more um uh a part of that decision, basically.

David 6:08

Now you and I have seen a whole bunch of agents come and go. Some of them succeed wildly in Medicare, and others just quickly leave the space. Is there a common denominator? Is there some some difference between those two groups?

SPEAKER_02 6:22

I think it's the ones that chase after the money. Um I I feel like the money, the money will come. Don't worry about the money. Worry about your clients. And one of the very first chapters in my book was saying, invest in yourself and invest in your clients. And I think when you do that, then the money comes. Medicare is not a get rich quick scheme. Um, when my first year in Medicare, I was still doing group benefits. I only sold 19 policies my whole first year, and I was like, I don't know about this. But then the more education I started doing, the more workshops. Um, I went to events. What I I told everybody I was doing Medicare, my doctors, my dentist, everybody I know, hey, I'm doing Medicare now. And I think that's what comes about change is is just knowing how to educate the public. That's really all it is.

David 7:18

Now, on the cover of your book, there is a whole football play diagram with all the X's and all of the O's. Right. What are the foundational plays that successful Medicare agents consistently run?

SPEAKER_02 7:32

The foundational plays are stay educated. Compliance is the key. We have so many people on the front of my book. Um, there has C CMS and FMOs, and and I put them on the side because they're like the referees. If you'll notice how the little plays are set up there on the side. And so knowing how to run an effective agency compliantly and making sure you do everything correctly, and that's hard, and that's what sets a lot of agents apart is they just want to go cut corners and not do the right things, not record their conversations, not have their backup, not have everything we won't say cover your rear end, but um to make sure you do all of that compliantly. And I think that's what sets agents apart is too many people trying to cut corners, make the buck, and move on. And that's not what Medicare is about, in my opinion.

David 8:32

When when you look at other successful, high-performing Medicare agents, are there certain habits or disciplines that you see all the time?

Retention First Then Referrals Follow

SPEAKER_02 8:40

I do. I see um cons consistently educating themselves. I see a lot of them at these conferences, I see a lot of them on webinars with myself. Um I see them actually writing books on things they know about. But that is what sets them apart is organization. You've got to stay organized, you've got to follow up, you've got to answer the phones, you've got to return phone calls. And that's what's important for a successful agent is to make sure they're doing those things that sets them apart from, you know, just putting on my calendar, make an appointment with me on yourself on your calendar. I I don't do that. If they want an appointment, they'll call my office. They will not get a recording unless we're on the phone. They will talk to a live person. My live uh assistant will make them an appointment, or I'll make them an appointment. It's just that personal, um, that personal effect that I think makes sets you apart for sure.

David 9:37

Now you kind of alluded to this earlier, but I want to kind of get into a little bit more depth. When we talk about acquisition versus retention, a lot of agents focus almost entirely on enrollments during AEP. In your book, you emphasize that retention and long-term relationships are really just as important. Why is that?

SPEAKER_02 9:56

That is very important because of the renewals and the relationships. And so for my AEP, I'll write some new business, but it's it's by, I don't know this by accident, but I'm not planning on it. My whole AEP is spent retaining my members, making sure they know to call me. I send out letters, I send out this time to review your plan. So they they come just as important as the new business. And then the referrals happen. But it's because you spend that time, like right now, I am getting ready for AEP next year. I'm getting my AEP letters ready, um, getting my software systems ready, auditing my books, seeing if I've lost any business during AEP last year. And so that's what's really important is I think concentrating on retention. To me, this is about retention. And if your clients love you, they will refer you. I don't buy leads, I don't do advertising, I am strictly sit here, wait for the phone to ring, and it rings, and somebody says, so-and-so told me to call you. I mean, that doesn't just happen overnight, but that should be everybody's goal is to work on referrals. And I have so many ways to get referrals. It's in my book, and I even got letters that that tell you how to approach physicians and financial planners and disability attorneys and get those referral partners in place.

David 11:22

It's a long time between this year's annual enrollment period to next year's. What are some of the most effective ways that agents can stay connected to their clients during the year?

Senior Misconceptions And IRMAA Shock

SPEAKER_02 11:31

That's a great question. So I have something called Sly Broadcast. It's called Ringless Voicemail, and we send out birthday notices. You actually record a recording, and then on their birthday, they hear my voice. It's a recording. But we use Sly Broadcast a lot. Even though we're not physically calling them, it's a phone call from us. And I also send out birthday cards. Um, I send out all kinds of greeting cards just to stay in touch, to touch points. And one thing that I bring up a lot that a lot of agents don't realize is when I have a client that calls me, for example, and let's say I'm having surgery next week, I need to know what my copay is, blah, blah, blah. So I write that down. And then after their surgery, I send them a get-well card. I mean, I don't know who else does that. Um, their car insurance agent probably doesn't do it. But it it's just one more way to stay in touch with a client so that they are the first focus point for you. And I tell my clients, I say, call me for everything. I don't care what it is. I want to hear from you first. I might not can answer it. I might have to say call the company, but call me first. You're not gonna have to sit on hold for an hour like you would with the insurance company. And nine times out of ten, I can probably answer the question for them. So that's one thing I do to get ready for annual enrollment, and then they know call me when annual enrollment hits.

David 13:00

So what are some of the most common misconceptions, misunderstanding that seniors have about Medicare? What do you what do you see most often?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

The thing I see most often is the people that are still working that think they can't get on Medicare until they get on Social Security or until they quit work. That is the biggest misconception. So I work with a lot of employers that let them know you can get on Medicare now, you can work till you're 100 if you want to. But there's no reason why you can't if it's more advantageous for you financially to go ahead and get on Medicare. So that's one of the biggest misconceptions that I see. Um, or they'll take Cobra, not realizing Cobra is not credible coverage, or they aren't taking any prescription, so they just get A and B and they don't get a drug plan. So there's a lot that they don't really realize because they're still in the workforce. And we have a lot of the baby boomers that are still working. This is starting one of the biggest years where the baby boomers, the first set of baby boomers are just now starting to retire. We call it the silver tsunami. So there's 12,000 a day actually turning 65, but the first set of those baby boomers that are 70 or so are starting to retire now. And so it's it's kind of a double tsunami, is what we call it, um, where we're pretty, pretty busy right now.

David 14:26

You you mentioned having Medicare while you're still working, and you alluded to Irma before. And that's something that I think what when I went on Medicare kind of took me by surprise. It also took my wallet hostage. What's Irma all about and and why do you have to be careful about that?

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Okay, it's income-related monthly adjustment amount. Say that fast three times, but we we don't like Miss Irma. So um the the good news is it is based on your income. So your part B premium is based on your income, but it's also based on two years prior. So what a lot of what happens a lot of times is you'll have somebody that had a higher income two years ago, but they are retiring now. They don't have that specific income, but they do have investments, and that's okay. They're just pulling off their investments. So there is an appeal uh form that you can appeal it that that says it's a life event form that says, hey, I'm not making that now. I'm only making this. And so we can appeal Irma, but it is a big thing. I have a lot of people that um are in Irma, and they're I said, look, this is you know gonna happen for a couple of years. And so um it is um a big eye-opener, and so you make sure that you talk to them about that when you're enrolling them so they don't get that big Irma letter and say, Oh my gosh, I didn't know about this.

David 15:49

Well, there's other times too when it's important for seniors. Like if you're selling a house or if you're um, I think if you're liquidating a portfolio, um, it's something to watch, isn't it? Because otherwise, once again, your Medicare premiums have a surcharge on them.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

That's exactly correct. That's and there's not a lot there is called loss of income producing property, but it means loss as if some rental property burned down or or your forestry burned or something like that. It's not just, hey, I've sold um a business and I'm not making that anymore. So um you have to be real careful. But but it it Irma's there.

David 16:26

So from the title of the book, it's clearly written to help agents avoid some of the pain going around the learning curve. What are the biggest mistakes that you see Medicare agents making?

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Putting them in the wrong plan. They don't check their prescriptions, they don't check their doctors, they just um put them in the plan that might can make more money or whatever, but um putting them in the wrong plan and not checking their prescriptions because you don't want that first phone call that says, My such and such prescriptions not covered, and then they're stuck in that plan for a year. So I think doing a full needs analysis is what I feel like is the wrong thing that a lot of agents um don't do, or they'll they'll get the prescriptions and it'll be the wrong dosage, or it'll be a taps uh capsule instead of a tablet. And you gotta get that right, you gotta get the doctors right, and I think that's the biggest thing is not doing a full needs analysis, whether they need an advantage plan or a supplement. And so I think that's that's the big key.

David 17:32

What's happening with advantage plans? There's been a whole lot of stuff in the news and the government sniffing around them, and some companies are going to do them, some companies aren't gonna do them. What's happening with that? Is that still a viable option?

SPEAKER_02 17:44

It definitely is. Um I think what has happened is, and I read something this morning in our NABIF Newswire about that as well, but um they're looking at their bottom line. And if that plan did not make the money they want, then they'll make adjustments. We had a lot of that in my state where they pulled out of certain counties, they pulled the PPOs out. I still think it's a viable option. I think Dr. Oz and Robert Kennedy both fully um like the advantage plans. I know Robert Kennedy's on one when I was listening to his confirmation hearings. He said, I'm owning a Medicare Advantage plan. So I think they want it to succeed, and agents have to be able to pivot, and that that's in my book. If if things happen that way, there was a lot of drug plans that um were not being paid commission on, and it's not about the commissions, it's it's about doing the right thing. I enrolled several of my clients in plans that I don't get paid on because it just you build your reputation of doing the right thing. That person can refer you to somebody that might can sell something that you will actually get paid commissions on. But Medicare Advantage, I think it's here to stay. I just think there's a lot of changes that are going around with it right now. So I think you're fine to hang in there.

David 19:03

I was gonna ask you about that because I know CMS has been really active and looking at all kinds of things and changing up stuff. What is there anything happening on that regulatory end that people should be aware of that agents practicing or getting into a Medicare practice should be aware of?

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Well, they're really coming down on the fraud, and I I've seen that a lot. I've seen them making a lot of strides in, you know, Medicare fraud hit$100 billion last year. That's a lot. And I don't think it's just fraud. I think it's waste and abuse. Um, I know I hear a lot of them saying, I have to go to the doctor every other month. I said, Well, you're not sick. Well, I know. He says I have to come down there. I said, yes, because all he all he wants to do is bill your Medicare. And so that's not fraud. You're seeing the doctor and saying, hey, how are you? But it's waste and abuse. And I think um they're starting to put some parameters in to help that. And if that happens and they can save$100 billion on fraud, waste, and abuse, they can put that back into the reimbursements to the Medicare Advantage companies. They only get the certain bucket of money that they have to deal with, and people don't realize that that's where their money comes from, is the government. That it's not XYZ company, they're just paying the claims, but they're paying it out of their bucket of money they're getting from the government. And the same way with the drugs, it's not XYZ paying the pharmacy, they're paying the pharmacy, but they're paying it out of the money that comes from the government. So it all boils down to what goes in and what comes out, but I don't think it's gonna be defunct, like everybody says. Um, I think they're just gonna make some changes.

David 20:39

So, how do successful agents stay compliant without letting regulations slow down their ability to serve clients?

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Compliant means studying, always studying. You're never too old to learn the compliance issues. It does change every year. I'm just now kind of knowing by heart what the changes were last year and the proposed regulations are being proposed right now. So it is an ever-changing world. Um, a funny thing we always consider ourselves is Medicare summer school. And so in the summer, we're always learning what the new rules are for next year. And it was tough. When I first started, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm never gonna get this. I don't know what a Slimby was and a Kimby and a Medicaid Medicare. How am I ever going to learn this? And it's just a matter of knowledge. You just got to stay in there and stay on top of it. You can't cut corners. That's all there is to it.

David 21:38

Choosing a Medicare plan is probably one of the most important financial and healthcare decisions that most seniors, you know, will make. What behaviors or approaches immediately signal to a client or a prospect that an agent truly has their best interests at heart?

SPEAKER_02 21:53

I think taking the time to talk to them and getting to know them, and that's what I do, and building that trust. If they trust you, a lot of times they'll ask me, they'll say, Well, what would you do? Or, you know, and I say, Well, here's what I might recommend, but this is really your decision. And so I think the key is putting all of your effort into explaining to them the difference in the different plans and the different um copays and what it could cost you down the line. And then not pressing them to make a decision right then. Say, look, you know, look this over, decide what's best for you, and letting them know you don't have to get the same thing as your wife, you don't have to get the same thing as your neighbor. Um, I talk to them, I say, everybody turns into a Medicare expert when you go on Medicare, your neighbor and your cousin, and your brother, and your sister, and you need this, and you need that. And I said, But this is based on your drugs, your doctors, your health, and your decision. And knowing that they can change later, because a lot of times I'll say, well, let's try this one now. We got open enrollment coming up in a few months. If you don't like it or you're not happy, we can always put you in a different plan for next year. But call me first because I'm independent and we can don't don't talk to anybody on the phone. If you see an ad or something, um, I more than likely can sell you what what you're seeing on the on the TV or or by somebody calling you. So that's the big misconception.

David 23:22

Yeah. If CMS wanted to do a big favor for the entire American populace, they'd outlaw all of those commercials and all of the mail. I mean, you could break your back. When you get 64 and a half, they deliver your mail, they charge you by the pound, you'd go broke. It's really silly.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

I'll walk into their house and because I do a lot of house performance, or they'll bring it here, they'll say, Can you go through this stack of mail with me? And I said, Yes, sir, I sure can. And I said, There's two little logos you need to look for, and it's that Social Security logo and that little CMS logo. Anything else? Um, and then I'll tell them, I'll say, and also if it's in color, I said, the government really can't afford color. So if it's a big, nice color postcard, they're more than likely trying to sell you something. But then what I do is I turn that into a referral and I'll say, I say, but that's why I don't buy those leads and I don't send you your junk mail. I just depend on people to, you know, give my number to other people. So there's always ways you can turn that around, but they're always wanting me to go through that stack of stuff, and it is, it's about six inches. And I just 65 in June, and mine's already about this high.

Tech Shifts Plus Final Takeaways

David 24:25

So it's it's nuts. Well, a couple of follow-up questions. Looking forward, uh, technology is is and AI and everything is getting into so many different aspects of insurance. Do you see that enhancing the role of agents or threatening it?

SPEAKER_02 24:40

I do, because I think the next generation, we're still in the baby boomers right now. They actually they can do email and stuff and they can do, you know, some AI. But when you get down to those millennials, Gen X, Gen Z, they are not gonna want to talk to anybody. I'm here to tell you. It's like, how can I sign up online? I don't want to talk to anybody, I don't want to see anybody. And I think you have to adapt to the generations. Um, that's gonna be the biggest challenge, I think, going forward, because now uh some of my baby booners can't even text. They're like, oh, I I can't text. They still got flip phones, you know. Um, but I think you're right as we see AI improving and um but I think compliance is gonna be the key. And you know, if they do it online, that's that's their fault, but um not their fault, but I think they'll pick a wrong plan. They won't check their drugs, they won't check their doctors, and then there's there's always gonna be a need, I feel like, for the agent for our part.

David 25:43

Wrapping up, looking at the book, if there were one core principle that you hope agents take away from the Medicare playbook for agents, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Relationship. Building the relationship and the trust. I mean, I go over that, I can't even tell you how many times in that book. There's a there's a whole chapter on referral-based marketing, grassroots marketing, and building that trust because I love it when a client calls me. I had one this morning and she said, somebody called me the other day and how about this and how about that? And I said, Well, I wouldn't do it. They were just trying to sell you something. She goes, That's why I called you first, because you've been my agent for five years, and anytime she sees something on TV, it's that trust factor. And um, I love, I love my seniors. I I have some in my book that I'll say, there's some that are gonna want to talk to you a long time because I love to talk. But I said, so I'll let them go to voicemail and then I'll call them when I get home in my recliner, and I'm sitting there answering emails, but I'll talk to them. I I let them talk for about an hour, hour and a half. They're fine with that, but they didn't take up my hour during the day. And so you kind of learn who those are, and they appreciate you calling them after five o'clock, and I'm fine with that. But I'm answering emails and doing work, and I just got my headphones on and th they spent the first 10 seconds asking me a question, and then it was like about their kids and their grandkids and their dogs, and it's like, okay, but but it's it's I I love that part of this business.

David 27:09

Well, and there's another another great tip. So Paige Phillips, the book is called Medicare Playbook for Agents. Where can people get it?

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Amazon. You can uh just Google it on Amazon and it's out there, it's been out for about two or three weeks, and I think you can either put my name, my title, I mean my name, but I know you can put the title with my name, and it just pops up. You can either get it on Kindle or on a paperback.

David 27:33

Well, uh, folks are listening to the podcast, so we'll Paige Phillips is P-A-I-G-E. Phillips is P-H-I-L-L-I-P-S. And once again, the title of the book is Medicare Playbook for Agents. Paige, thanks for a really, really great conversation and a lot of good information.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Thanks, David. You're welcome. It's my pleasure.

Announcer 27:53

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