Why Mindset Beats Better Benefits

David 0:00

What if the biggest barrier to better outcomes for your clients isn't their benefits plans, but how their people think, react, and show up every day? We'll find out on this episode of Shift Shapers.

Announcer 0:15

Change either energizes or paralyzes. The choice is yours. This is the Shift Shapers Podcast, bringing the employee benefits industry interviews with individuals and companies who are shaping the industry's shifts. And now, here's your host, David Saltzman.

What Mindset Really Means At Work

David 0:35

And to help us understand all of this, we've invited Lizzie Benton. Lizzie is founder of Liberty Mind, a UK-based consultancy that helps organizations improve performance by reshaping mindset, culture, and communication inside their teams. Welcome, Lizzie. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Thank you so much for having me, David.

David 0:55

So let's start with the foundation. When you talk about mindset, what do you mean and why does it matter so much inside of an organization?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Oh, yes. Mindset is so important when it comes to our organizations because it's the beliefs that drive everything we do. Even if we take it down to a personal level, our mindsets are the very baseline of where everything happens, our habits, our behaviors, how we show up in the world. And so when we're doing this in an organization collectively, those mindsets are shaping the organizational culture. Even if we have a set of really good values that sound great, that are on the wall, they might not really be the living, breathing mindset and beliefs that are happening under the surface. And so what we want to do is get under the surface of what are the mindsets that are in the organization shaping the actual behaviors that are going on.

Linking Benefits To Real Motivators

David 1:59

That's fascinating. So let's bring it closer to home. Our audience is made up largely of employee benefits advisors. How does employee mindset directly impact the effectiveness of the benefits plans they recommend to their clients?

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Yeah, that is a great question. And I think what it stems down to is when we're linking those benefits with what people actually want. So are we getting under the surface of people's mindsets and values and the things that really motivate them and how we match that with those benefits? Because very often what we can do in many organizational cultures is we can match the benefits based on the organization and less on the individual's needs and desires. So we have to really think about what are the organizational cultural values. So how do benefits reinforce the cultural values that exist within the organization? But also how can we link that with the individual, the mindsets that they have, like what's important to them? Because what we don't want, because as many of us know, that benefits packages are also quite expensive for an organization. They're a big investment, they're a big resource. And what we want to make sure is people are using those benefits. So when it comes to those mindsets and beliefs, we really also want to understand the individual, the collective, and how that's kind of feeding into the culture and the benefits. So it might be, for example, that some people, you know, really value their gym membership, they value their health and fitness. So maybe it's that gym membership benefit. Whereas someone else might not care at all about going to the gym, might not value um their health in the same way. And so they may require something different. So when we can really understand what some of the mindsets and beliefs are within the organization, I think you can better shape the benefits that we provide people.

Hidden Culture Patterns That Hurt Performance

David 4:03

All right, so great answer. Let's dive a little bit deeper. I know you work closely with organizations on culture. We talked about that a little bit before. What are the most common mindset patterns you see that quietly undermine performance?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Oh gosh, yes. This is a really interesting one because when we look at some of the common mindsets that exist within organizations, and it it really varies because, you know, I think when we look at many organizations, they are the by osmosis, the very kind of influences of the leader or the founder who or whoever started that organization. The things, the habits or behaviors that have started with those people ripple out and they become the norms of what we see. So when we're thinking about, okay, how do we, you know, really want to drill down into creating that environment where we are supporting people in those benefits packages, where we are thinking about what motivates them. If we follow that all the way down to that root mindset, you know, what is the mindset that exists even in leadership and senior management? So it might be things, you know, that there's a lack of trust, maybe, you know, there might be lack of trust within the organization. And so some of the processes and practices reinforce that lack of trust. You know, we've all maybe been in an organization where you might have to sign, sign out a piece of stationery because people don't quite trust that you're going to use it or you're going to steal it. You know, these kind of practices and processes all stem from the mindsets that exist. So it's things like lack of trust, it's things like um transactional um rather than relational ways of being. So, you know, the organization is thinking, oh, I just need to get this out of my team. I need to motivate them more, I need to inspire them more. And the people are thinking, well, I just want to get paid really well, and I just want to make sure my benefits are good. So we're kind of in this almost like transactional relationship. And while that's beneficial to a point, what we want to understand is how can we make that more relational as well? How can we create more connection and belonging in that culture? So it's not just transaction-based. So for me, really underpinning mindsets that exist helps us to almost diagnose how the organization can shape their culture.

Building Trust Through Authentic Leadership

David 6:40

Could you give us some examples of things that employers and um small businesses and even benefits advisors, if they're solo practitioners, can do to create that trust environment? Because it's not only important between employers and employees, but it's also a key component of advisors themselves being successful and creating long-term relationships.

unknown 7:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yes, absolutely. Because yeah, we're all people, right? And we connect better when we are being ourselves. So I feel like the trust has to begin with the individual. So, you know, being authentic, being vulnerable, actually that precedes trust. We need to have a sense of vulnerability and being authentic. It's very easy in our professional lives to almost put on this professional mask to act or come across in a certain way and want to hide parts of ourselves that we might not feel is deemed as very professional. Um, but actually, what we want to do is try to be as much of our authentic whole selves so that people see the real us because that's where the connection begins. So I would always say, whether it's leaders or whether it's advisors, how am I fully showing up as myself? And where might I be falling into that trap of performing in order to feel like I'm meeting those needs. So for me, trust starts with ourselves, like how can I show up more authentically, me and connect definitely around the vulnerability, you know, saying things like, I don't know, but I would like to find out for you, rather than being the person that always has the answer, because most of us don't always have the answer. Sometimes we do need to go and look things up. So really building that trust starts with that vulnerability of being human. So small acts like that, you know, sharing when something's gone wrong rather than trying to hide it, it's it's small acts that keep building that bucket of trust.

Spotting Culture Issues Through Language

David 8:42

So let's look at it from the other side. Um, for some of our advisors who are working with small business clients, what should they watch for? What are the early signs that culture or mindset issues are affecting employee engagement? Because employee engagement with these very expensive plans is really key. What should they look for? What are the signs? What are the guardposts?

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah. So even straight away, the thing that I look out for straight away is language. How do people speak about their employees? How do people talk about what they're doing in their culture? You know, I've had many a conversation at a networking event where even from just hearing leaders speak, I immediately understand what culture they're probably creating. So the best way I like to describe it is almost to have your language antennas up, you know, really thinking about wow, they just said that. Does that mean they have this certain belief about their team or their employees? So just being hyper-aware of the language people use is really important. So that's a very simple place to start, understanding their language and what might be coming up for them. The other thing to look at when we're maybe going inside the organization. So maybe you get to go and visit them and you have a meeting inside their offices, is just getting like a general energy vibe of how are people, are people like heads down, really quiet? You know, are they kind of having a laugh? Is there quite a good vibe? You know, as humans, we in intuitively pick up on these kind of combat signals, is what I call them. So we can walk into an environment and we just know that something might be off. So using our intuition to sense that. It's the same as when we go into a room after someone's just had an argument, you know, we're we know we might not have seen the argument, but we can just feel the tension in the air. So it's those small things to first of all look out for, the language and that kind of energy, the atmosphere in the office space.

Why More Benefits Still Falls Flat

David 10:48

So there's an assumption, at least on this side of the pond, that better benefits, just enhancing the benefits, giving employees more, leads to better results. Where does that fall apart in the real world?

unknown 11:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Oh my gosh, David, yeah, that's so true. It really is. Because it, you know, a lot of that, I mean, you say that's over in the pond. It's happening here in the UK as well. And we're starting to get these, um, what I call almost like the the willy wonker of benefits packages in organizations where the menu is quite phenomenal in terms of what you can get in some of these organizations. And where it really stops is that in reality, while monetary gain and benefits packages, yes, they um have have a certain level of fulfillment. They meet some needs within us. But humanly, when we look at all of the data around culture and what really motivates people, it's actually things like, you know, do I have agency in my work? Do I have some sense of autonomy? Or am I always just delivering whatever the manager tells me to? So we've got to look at some of those aspects of those intrinsic motivation. You know, do I feel challenged in my work? Am I doing things that are helping me learn, develop, and grow? And do I feel like the work that I'm doing has an impact? You know, am I turning up just to just to kind of grind out the work? Or actually, am I seeing the bigger picture of where my work ends up? So, in reality, while we can keep trying to ply people with benefits, what we want to do is give them that sense of self-direction, self-confidence. It's the same. I often um link it back to the reward mechanisms that we give to children. You know, we're kind of like bribing them for good behaviour. And slowly as they get older, you know, you might give them a bit of pocket money to clean their room. And then suddenly, you know, 50p isn't enough, and you've then got to make it more and more money, even though they're still cleaning the same room. So we really have to think about okay, how do I get them to, you know, clean their bedroom without having to give them 20 pounds to do it? So we have to go back to those roots of our very humanistic nature of what actually motivates people in general, not just um, how much more can I add to this benefits package to keep them for longer or keep them happier?

David 13:18

Now,

Advisors Starting Mindset Conversations

David 13:19

advisors are typically positioned as culture consultants. Let's use that term for the time being. The first question is: should they start having conversations about mindset without overstepping or losing credibility? And how do they go about doing that?

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Yeah, absolutely. I think when it comes to benefits, it's a brilliant foot in the door to look at the holistic aspects of culture. To kind of one of the questions I would always ask is, why is it that you want to do this? You know, that's a brilliant entryway to understand what their own motivations are in order to have a better benefits package in the organization. So that's a brilliant question to kind of really open up and understand more about the culture. You know, if people say, Oh, well, you know, I I really want to make this a great place to work, oh, you know, like tell me more about that. What else are you doing? So you can start to have a conversation. And maybe that's a great entry point to start looking at things holistically. You know, if you want to add more services or skills as a benefits advisor, that's a brilliant way to start understanding where are some of the challenges right now when if someone is really passionate about culture in their organization, what are some of the things that they're looking at next? Because it might be that benefits is just one of the things they're looking at. They may have be looking at lots of other things.

David 14:44

So

Small Habits That Shift Mindset Fast

David 14:46

from the business owner side, let's kind of go over there for a second. What are a few simple practical steps that they can take to begin shifting mindset without launching a huge formal culture initiative?

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Yeah. Well, mindset first has to happen when we have an awareness. We can't change mindsets without having an awareness for what those mindsets exist. So, and I I agree with you as well, David. You know, I've seen over the past eight years so many organizations create these huge uh change initiatives that that look great in a PowerPoint presentation, but in reality fall very short of their expectations. And so it is in these what I say small iterative habits that we can create. What are just some small things that we can do to start to shift the dial? So when it comes to mindset, it's first of all bringing in awareness. Now, if you're a self-aware leader and you're in an organization where you're leading meetings or you're having mentoring or one-to-one, understanding mindsets is a brilliant place to start to make people aware of those mindsets. So it might be, you know, you're in a meeting, maybe you're having a creative brainstorm, but people are feeling a little bit flat, and you might notice that people keep shutting down ideas. Well, that's a perfect moment to bring that up as a mindset. You know, this is a habit that's happening in this meeting. So as a leader, it's kind of like I'm sensing in this space that we kind of have this mindset that this feels like a waste of time and we don't, we're not really in it. So making it part of your common language as a leader is the first step to heighten everyone else's awareness. And even working on yourself, you know, I always say that the self-work has to come before the culture work. We have to work on ourselves as leaders before we start to want to affect change.

Micromanagement And Outdated Hierarchies

David 16:52

I think that's key. What are some things that leaders often get wrong?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

I mean, getting wrong, I would say, is it's more than the not noticing, I would say. It's, you know, the kind of the lack of self-awareness sometimes, and that, you know, it has to be this way. Or I would say, you know, they have a very clear vision of what they would like to create. And I always say that many founders and leaders are very visionary people. They've got really big ideas for what they want to create. But in terms of the execution and the day-to-day, that's where they get kind of lost in the weeds because actually they're really good at the big thing, big picture thinking. But then they're not giving people the autonomy and agency and the power to make that vision come to life. So they're almost like micromanaging in many elements. So I would say that's where it can often go wrong is we we default to this kind of micromanaging way of being. And then the other thing that I would say is that we have a belief that it has to be a certain way, that the way we organize or structure our organizations has to be in a particular, you know, hierarchical format, where we have, you know, the C-suite at the top and everyone else below that takes the orders. And in reality, that kind of outdated traditional hierarchical system is becoming very archaic in the very complex, adaptive world that we now live in. And so we now need to think and educate ourselves on what are the other ways that we can do this? How can we redesign work to work better in the world that we live in and with the workforce that we have? Um, so I wouldn't say it's so much they get it wrong, but I think there's a huge lack of awareness around the different types of organizing that are out there.

David 18:50

Does the, let's call it ineffectiveness or inefficiency of that kind of a hierarchical structure, is that exacerbated by generational change?

SPEAKER_00 19:01

I want to say yes, but it's so much more complicated than that. I would say it's really about what we have been conditioned with, what we are used to. So when we think about generations and what we've been taught and told about organizations and how they look, we want to, we have a particular conditioning of what that is. You know, for many of us in previous generations, we were told that, you know, to get a job and to stay in that job for as long as possible and then retire. But the workplace is so different now. And the younger generation are wanting more freedom and autonomy. So there can be a slight clash of generational experiences. And that's also where we need to be adaptive to those because we are now in a place where we have the most mixed generations in the workforce. And that's something we really have to consider.

David 20:09

Are there specific phrases, behaviors, or communication patterns that that maybe signal deeper mindset or cultural problems that advisors should listen for?

SPEAKER_00 20:21

It really depends on what type of organization you're going into. And for me, again, it comes down to that language. So is there a lot of negative language being used? You know, especially when it comes to um leaders and employee relationships, you know, how they talk about one another. A lot of the time when I do um my sort of culture audits and I will have focus groups with teams, what I'm really listening for is some of the language. You know, what's the theme that's coming across? What's the pattern that's happening? And so even if you're, you know, having those conversations with leaders or employees, you're picking up on some of the phrases that they're saying. Um, you know, like it's just a job, you know, that is, you know, quite a common one that you might hear where people are thinking, I'm only here for my paycheck. Understanding, okay, what, okay, what's important to that person then actually at the moment, what they're really here for is their financial security. So you start to understand what is below some of those comments that people are making. So just listening out for phrases, um, you know, even a really small one that I often recognize in leaders is, you know, when they say things like, um, I have people that work for me rather than with me. It's that am I seeing people as partners or am I seeing people as executors to the work that I want them to do?

David 21:52

We've got

AI Changes Work So Culture Matters More

David 21:53

time for one last question. So let's talk about the future a little bit. Looking ahead, how do you see mindset and culture in Influencing the future of employee benefits. And what's the opportunity for advisors who lean into this?

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Well, first of all, I think the opportunity is huge. You know, culture is becoming forever more important in terms of how we work, especially in this age of AI. While, yes, it's taking away some, you know, work, but a lot of the times what we'll start to see is it's taking away the very boring mundane work that we don't really want to do anyway. Where organizations, you know, the smart ones, the clever ones, where they're going to really tap into is yes, using AI for the mundane and optimizing human skill and human talent where it matters. So it's important that we look at if we're going to create these workplaces that are important to people and talent is going to become ever more important in terms of what we want those skills to be, then we're going to be very hyper-focused on how we create the best work environment for them. So I would say it's really now this time of how do we look at the opportunities of increasing that fulfillment in the workplace and the making sure that the culture and the mindset is right and you know, really optimizing those mindsets and the culture so that we're creating something that's really impactful. And that's what I'm starting to notice in the companies that are doing things well. You know, yes, they're they're using technology, but to an advantage. Rather than just, you know, replacing people, people are still going to be needed. We we we still are human to human. We want connection, we want a sense of belonging, and so we need to tap into that. So I think this is a a really pivotal moment, even in workplace history, of those that will do it well will really accelerate and create incredible impact in the world. And those that do it wrong, you know, we're seeing a lot of organizations making mass redundancies because of AI. There's going to be a lot of those people being re-employed when they realize that AI isn't quite completely taking over humans just yet.

David 24:17

What

Final Takeaways And Farewell

David 24:18

a great place to end our conversation. Lizzie Benton, founder of Liberty Mind. Lizzie, thanks for a fascinating conversation.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Thank you so much for having me, David.

Announcer 24:27

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